Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
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RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by Eugeny ·
Below is quick thoughts on the design, not related to the main problem:
Sounds like chip locks up. How fast it happens? Did you have an opportunity to see if it starts heating heavily?
I see you still have SPI connected to the chip. What is going on there? I am not sure but generally some wrong command through SPI may get chip going crazy. Do not know if it is possible, why not!
RE: RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by tingox ·
I can certainly try a test pcb with the EXRES1 resistor fitted, even if I find it unlikely that a missing EXRES1 resistor could make the W5500 die.
The current draw increase happens very quickly, over just a few seconds. We don’t have a thermal camera, but the W5500 chip never feels hot.
SPI - no, there is nothing else connected to the W5500, neither on the SPI nor the other signals on the test pcbs. I just didn’t erase those lines from the schematic - sorry. On a fully populated pcb there is of course a microcontroller connected.
RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by Eugeny ·
Thanks for the info. How do you solder the chip in the first place? What is the soldering profile?
RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by tingox ·
The prototypes are hand soldered. Soldering iron, microscope and steady hands.
RE: RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by Eugeny ·
Great, what is the temperature of the soldering iron when soldering?
Let me explain. I killed lots of (let’s say 20
) W5100 chips hand soldering them at 350C. They did not die completely, but they became unreliable and had strange working artifacts. When I solder chips at iron at 315C, everything is great. In conclusion: high iron temp damages the chip, and this damage may exhibit in very strange ways.
RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by tingox ·
Interesting, I keep the soldering iron at 370 degrees Centigrade (lead free solder you know). I could try preheating the pcb (we have a hot plate, not ideal but it might work) and solder it at a lower temperature.
RE: RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by Eugeny ·
As a test for the proto try leaded solder at 315C and see how it performs. Or in general: discuss soldering profile which you can find in the datasheet with your process technologist, and decide what you can do. Finally if you have equipment perform reflow as in datasheet for the chip only, all other do hand soldering.
RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by tingox ·
Hand soldered a prototype board using leaded solder at 315C. Unfortunately it didn’t help, the chip still dies. I use a lab power supply with a current limited output, increasing the current limit in steps for the testing. I use the minimal schematic, but added the EXRES1 resistor.
Questions:
RE: RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by Eugeny ·
Sad news, I was hoping it will help.
I do not think so, but can not tell you definitely. For some reason I recall that chip may be also designed for direct transformerless configurations. And probably this question was already asked before, and I do not recall any cautions.
Chip consumes max 140 mA, with latch-up at 200 mA. Given that you have had same behavior with magnetics fitted, problem is not in RX/TX connection.
You said previously that SPI is not connected on minimal circuit, but chip still dies. We are sure that power is not a problem.
Can you please take defective chip, and measure resistance between its 3V3D and 3V3A pints onto ground pins to see where exactly breakdown it?
Also please clarify how /RESET pin is being handled in all scenarios.
And only clock circuit remains. I do not see anything bad about crystal and its properties (50 ppm instead of 30 ppm must not cause this issue?) and rise/fall time of 10 ns. However is it possible for you to attach/solder in somehow classical WIZnet clocking circuit basing on the crystal as a test? One crystal, two caps and one resistor. Another suggestion could be putting current limiting resistor between generator device and XI pin. But this all is searching for black cat in dark room, in opinion more tests are required.
Last, but not least - are all chips from the same batch? Did you purchase them from respective/trustworthy source? I did not see fake chips so far, and hardly believe there will be any, but consider worth checking this aspect.
RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by tingox ·
/RESET pin has internal pullup, no other connection in minimal setup. In full setup, it is connected to the mikrokontroller.
All components are ordered from trustworthy sources (Digikey / Mouser). I have ordered W5500 chips from both, in order to rule out a possible batch problem.
I will measure resistance as soon as I can.
I will look into if we can change the clock circuit.
RE: RE: Custom pcb, W5500 chip dies, need help to figure out the reason
by Eugeny ·
Just build the circuit on the existing pads in airwire-type wiring. This is a test, no need to make new board. You just need appropriate components. The most tricky is connecting XO, but can be carefully achieved by the thin insulation/lacquer coated copper wire.
Edit: from my experience reset pin needs to be driven low after power up. Your crystal start up time is 10 ms, chip’s reset timing, per datasheet’s 5.5.1, is 1 ms, therefore reset pin must be held low for, let’s say, 20 ms, or better for jumbo period like 0.5 seconds to be sure chip is hard reset properly. No idea if it matters here, just telling how I would do it, and how it works for me (for W5100).